Military service, no thanks?! Part II

The war in Ukraine has reignited the debate about reintroducing conscription in Germany. In Switzerland, military or civilian service is compulsory for men. How do young people there perceive their period of service?

Just a few days ago, Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock once again reaffirmed her rejection of reintroducing conscription in Germany. This reflects the attitude of most young people in the country: only 18 per cent of 14- to 29-year-olds support such a step, whilst 50 per cent clearly reject it (Source: trend study "Youth in Germany – Summer 2022"). Timon and Sebastian live in Switzerland and have already completed their service there. In the interview, they share their perspective on the topic and report on their experiences in recruit school and as a civilian service worker.

Info box: Military and civilian service in Switzerland

Every Swiss citizen is obliged to perform military service; Swiss women can volunteer (an expansion of the service obligation to women is currently being debated). Military service can be performed between the ages of 19 and 25 and typically lasts 18 weeks. After recruit school, graduates remain assigned for nine years and complete six refresher courses of three weeks each during this period. Those found fit for military service but who consider it incompatible with their conscience can perform civilian alternative service in the social and health sector or in the environmental field. This lasts one and a half times as long as military service. Those found unfit and who perform neither military nor civilian service must pay a replacement levy of three per cent of taxable income per year (for a maximum of eleven years). People with a disability rating of at least 70 per cent are exempt from the replacement levy. For each day of service, both military and civilian service workers are entitled to earnings replacement, even if they were not employed before starting service. The earnings replacement amounts to 80 per cent of income before starting service, but at least 62 CHF per day. Civilian service workers additionally receive 5 CHF pocket money daily from their employer, recruits receive a daily allowance of an additional 4 CHF (Source: ch.ch).

Interview on military service with Timon (25, studying law)

I: When exactly did you perform your service and where?

T: I completed recruit school in 2017 as a tank scout in Thun. Recruit school lasted 21 weeks back then, after that I had three months off, then I completed a refresher course, which you have to do every year, though you can sometimes defer them. And afterwards I then decided to switch to civilian service, did another four months of civilian service and so basically completed all my service days before starting university.

I: Okay, that's interesting, I didn't know you could switch from military service to civilian service.

T: Yes, you can submit an application and it's usually approved – well, it has to be approved if all the requirements are met. And for the remaining service days, there's a multiplier applied, and then you have to complete those. But that's changed now; when I did it, the multiplier was still 1.5, so I had roughly plus or minus 60 days left, times 1.5, so about 90 days. I think the multiplier is now 2, if I'm not mistaken.

I: Ah okay, and where exactly did you do your civilian service?

T: I did my civilian service in Aarau, at a childcare centre. Oh yes, maybe I should mention that recruit school wasn't just in one place, but mostly in Thun, but four weeks of it we were also in Bure, which is in the Jura, and three weeks we were, I think, in Eschenbach, near Zurich.

I: Okay, and why is it that recruit school always takes place in different locations? Who decides where you go, or can you choose that yourself?

T: No, you can't choose that yourself, it has to do with basic training – I don't remember the exact terms anymore…

I: …no problem!

T: That was the first twelve to fourteen weeks, and during that time you learn the classic stuff, shooting, saluting, registration. And then there's the – I think it's called VBA 1 and 2, that's the further training. Normally you change location with your whole company to continue the function-specific training. And for me that was in Bure, which is a really large barracks in the Jura. And the second one was in Eschenbach, which was just our company. That was also a civil defence facility, not a barracks anymore.

I: Okay. You've already told me quite a lot about the different locations and that you can't really choose them yourself – but what actually motivated you to switch from military service to civilian service? Maybe you could briefly explain your motivation for both?

T: The question has a small problem in it – you don't choose the location, you choose the function, and with the function you can indirectly determine the location. For example, I did tank scout, so it was clear that would be in Thun. But I didn't know we'd go to Bure, I didn't know we'd go to Eschenbach, you only find that out during recruit school. But there are also functions, like infantry, where there are X different companies, and you get assigned somewhere in Switzerland, so you can't choose the location that way. Right, but regarding my motivation for civilian service: I actually wanted to do the military, I knew I had to do something anyway – there's also the option of declaring yourself doubly unfit and just paying. That thought didn't appeal to me much because a) I didn't want to pay, and b) at that age I was actually quite keen on the idea of experiencing something like that. So I chose the scout function because I found it relatively interesting, it was relatively demanding physically, but it was also a company where – well, I'll say it now, the military has the stigma that only idiots hang around there, but for scouts you have to achieve certain results in recruitment, both intellectually and physically, and that appealed to me, I enjoyed doing that. It turned out that the people there were all relatively okay, not so militaristically blinkered, and yes, it was actually cool. I know quite a lot of people who found the military extremely awful, but for me it wasn't such a tragic experience. Not exactly pleasant the first few weeks, little sleep, all the shouting, following orders and so on, not pleasant, but for me it wasn't so tragic. But I did actually switch to civilian service, and that was purely for organisational reasons, because I still had time before university started in September. That was still four, five months, and if you do the military you can choose between two systems, the recruit school-refresher course system – I did that because the function I wanted to do only existed in that system – where you do recruit school and then refresher courses every year until you're about 30. But that has the disadvantage that you can't do many days at once, you do recruit school and then you have to keep coming back every year. With that system I basically couldn't have filled those five months with military service days. And then there's the continuous service system, where you do all your service days in one go. That would have been an option too, but that function didn't exist, so I didn't do it. The three months I still had free after recruit school, I thought about it, okay, what do I do until university, then I went travelling and then I thought, okay, it would actually be quite cool if I got all my service days done before I started university, because then the refresher courses always fall during exam periods, and I didn't want to put myself through that.

I: Yes, of course.

T: And that's why I decided to make the switch. I'd say the normal reason is actually aversion to the military – I wasn't extremely keen, but I would have finished the normal refresher course system. But it's simply disadvantageous for your studies.

I: Okay, yes, of course. Now you've done two very different services, which differ quite a bit in terms of work processes, but maybe you could still briefly describe what a typical working day was usually like when you were in the military and when you were a civilian service worker?

T: Okay, I'll try to sum that up briefly (laughs). So in the military it basically works like this: you sleep in a large room, 20 people plus or minus, then you're woken up, around five, half past five, then you get up, you gather, go for breakfast all together, that's the whole platoon, about 30 people, and then training begins. That could be shooting, platoon drill, marching, throwing hand grenades, close combat, whatever. It could also be driving training, depending on what the function is. And that changes over the course of recruit school too, of course, depending on the function.

I: Platoon drill, what exactly is that?

T (laughs): Platoon drill is probably the stupidest thing about the whole military… if you watch a military parade,
how they march in step –
I: Ah okay – T: – then you can imagine it something like this, there's someone standing there, and they give orders – left, right,
faster etc., and then you do it in the platoon, like, 30 men. It's really just a discipline thing and for presenting the army, but yes. Right, and what you also have is cleaning your equipment, very popular (laughs). That's usually in the evening, you're in the barracks during the day, and then in the evening the rifle is cleaned, shoes are cleaned, equipment is cleaned, etc. Yes and what else do you do… well, group training, like you'd imagine a soldier's training. We also learned to infiltrate, to shoot with sniper rifles with attachments for our rifle, more specialised things. You learn how the radio system works, and then you have marches etc. Yes and in the evening you come home, and at the beginning of recruit school you basically have no free time, you come back to your sleeping area, then you have ten minutes to shower, then you go to bed, you're dead tired, and then the whole thing starts again. And then towards the end of recruit school you get more and more free time, and that also depends on which function, how strict the superiors are, etc.

I: Yes and what about at weekends, do you stay in the barracks?

T: Well, generally the rule is that you're released Saturday morning and have to be back Sunday evening. Many functions can already leave Friday evening, but I think I was home Friday evening only once during the entire recruit school. Right. You don't get leave during recruit school, you can apply for it if necessary, but generally none, and otherwise everything's there: if you're ill, there's a hospital, you go to lunch with everyone together in the big cafeteria – you're never alone, you're always with your platoon. And that's basically how everyday life plays out – training, and then always together really. And in the childcare centre it was of course completely different (laughs).

I: Yes I can imagine – (laughs)

T: You can imagine it like a completely normal job, it was nine to five, or in Switzerland eight to five, you arrive at eight, and then childcare, cleaning, afternoon snack, morning snack (laughs) –

I: – yes, I've already learned what that is (laughs)

T: Right, preparing that, eating with the children, yeah, a completely normal job really. And then in the evening you go home again, weekends free, as you know it. I had 10 minutes to work. Oh yes and maybe a brief note on that, I mentioned earlier that they've increased the multiplier from 1.5 to 2: an awful lot of men realised it was worth switching to civilian service, because in the end, if you're in the military all day and have no free time, you work more hours than if you just work eight hours there and then go home in the evening. When I did it, it was still worth it, but now they've increased it because otherwise they don't have enough people in the military.

I: Okay, I understand.

T: Yes, it's not that popular (laughs)

I: Yes, well (laughs). To what extent did your period of service influence your further life path, or were there any impulses that helped you with your orientation for your later career choice? Or did you perceive the service more as a restriction because it got in the way of your future planning?

T: Well, in my case it didn't make much difference. I'd finished secondary school, had my Matura and already knew what I wanted to study, what direction I wanted to develop my career in. I just had to get it done, but professionally it didn't really help me. It gives you a bit of time to think about everything, whether that's the right thing and so on, but for me personally it wasn't helpful – I wouldn't have needed that time to figure out what I wanted to do. And in the military there's no career counselling as such, the only thing they suggest to you is of course a military career (laughs). There are people who change their career path and then become professional soldiers, sure, but that wasn't an option for me. If anything, the service was an obstacle because it cost me a year. That year wasn't wasted, I gained valuable experience from it, but it's definitely a disadvantage. Now I think twice about whether to do another internship that lasts another six months – I'm already 25. What else do I do, do I do a doctorate, hmm, that costs me more time – you lose a year either way, that was actually the most decisive influence the service had on my career.

I: Hmm, okay. Maybe you could also briefly go into what positive or negative experiences you had during your period of service? You've already mentioned that the year itself wasn't wasted and you also took away many valuable experiences, perhaps also skills, personal growth etc…

T (laughs): As far as skills go, I have to be honest, I probably benefited more from civilian service than from the military.

I (laughs): Okay.

T: What was cool about civilian service was dealing with small children, which you don't really do in everyday life. In my circle there were no small children, my cousins are all older than me, my friends are all still too young to have children, so there were never small children in my immediate circle. And dealing with them, that showed me something, and yes, it was fun too! Also dealing with young parents, seeing how they cope with the situation and so on, that taught me something, I'd say. And in the military – hard skills that you can use in life, well. Maybe driving, I gained a lot of driving experience. When I came into the military I was 19 years old and had just got my driving licence, and then I drove around in military vehicles for days – that maybe gave me a bit more practice, but that's also the only thing I really learned.

I: Okay.

T: And otherwise, I had many positive experiences, comrades I got to know, some of whom I still have contact with today. We also had more contact with the Romansh speakers, so it's mixed, German-French. You meet people from all over Switzerland, also from Ticino sometimes, that was interesting. And yes, the social mixing was also an interesting aspect, you have people from the Gold Coast, Zurich, mixed with people from families who are just getting by. So really people from very different social backgrounds. And yes, of course I also had negative experiences, with poor leadership personalities, mainly that. You have people there who would never have reached such positions of power in the private sector, but in the military there's no competition because most people don't want to do it. So you really have completely incompetent people sometimes. But I have to say that wasn't so bad for us.

I: Okay. You've already mentioned that friendships have resulted from your time in the military, which continue to this day – but is military service itself a big topic in your circle of friends?

T: Military service was the topic of conversation when I and my friends were at that age and all did it together. You exchange experiences, hey how's it going for you, you also compare yourself, sometimes it's a bit of a competition, who does what. So it was a very big topic back then. But nowadays it's not a topic in my circle of friends anymore, it's been a few years. But what's surprising and what I always find interesting: as soon as I meet new people – well, men, because mostly men do military service – it very quickly becomes a topic again. Where were you, what did you do, sometimes you even know, if you're the same age, this and that colonel. Ah yes, I was there too, the barracks are shit and so on, it's actually always a good conversation opener for all the men you meet in Switzerland (laughs)

I: Okay (laughs)

T: Then it's a topic again every now and then. But otherwise not really.

I: Okay, all clear. Yes, then maybe the question about generational differences: how do you perceive your generation's attitude towards military service, and do you perhaps notice differences compared with the generation of your parents or grandparents?

T: I find it very difficult to make a statement about my generation because the data clearly shows that the military is unpopular, that more and more people actually don't want to do military service. In my circle too, I know many people who either wriggled out of it and didn't do it, or did it and then spent those 21 weeks full of hatred. But I also know many people who didn't find it so tragic, or even some who thought it was cool. I think there are big differences depending on how people grew up, whether they like it or not. In my experience, conservative circles value the military more than, I'll say, liberal youth from the city. It's often the case that the more conservative ones come from rural areas – I imagine it's probably similar in Germany.

I: Yes, it is.
T: Yes, you can see big differences there, so that city dwellers tend to resist it more, whilst country folk are still more in favour of it. But the difference from our parents and grandparents, that's really a striking difference. I think it's relatively obvious. You can say that the military, when my father was in the military – he even became a captain and was further involved – was important for his career. Especially in the legal field and in the business field, it was partly a must 30, 40 years ago. Networking was done, and it was simply regarded as social status, so it wasn't just recruit school, but an officer's career had to be there. And today that's not the case anymore. Most companies, although they would never admit it openly, actually appreciate it when people starting with them have completed their military service. Which is also logical, because otherwise they have to do refresher courses all the time, three, four weeks a year. And it's similar with studies, which I already mentioned – the main reason for me to leave military service. So you have huge differences, and then there's my grandfather's generation – well, if you didn't go to the military back then, you were, to put it bluntly, the outsider, the odd one. Back then it really had an extremely high status, but over the years it's become increasingly devalued. And now the officer's career is no longer relevant at all, you can do it, but you don't have to, and whether you did military service or not doesn't really matter. Maybe if you happen to meet a particular recruit who thought it was great, but otherwise not really. So a lot has changed in the last 50 years.

I: Okay, all clear. So from my side, all the questions are done, that was very thorough, thanks! Maybe you'd like to highlight something, summarise, draw a conclusion…

T: – I think I've already reported very thoroughly (laughs)

I: Yes, I think so too (laughs)

T: Yes, maybe two sentences on conscription, I think conscription, the way we do it and the way Germany might try to reintroduce it, is absolute nonsense. You can see how many resources are wasted in the military, people are trained who end up not being able to do anything, we have thousands of infantrymen who can't even hold a rifle properly, so it doesn't help. I'd be in favour of making the military significantly smaller, and then only calling up militia soldiers who are actually motivated to do it, and then equipping them better. With the budget that's available – the way Germany actually already does it with professional soldiers (laughs)

I: Yes, that's actually one of the main criticisms raised in the public debate in Germany. People who have experience in the military themselves say that it's complete nonsense to require 18-year-old boys to do a few months of military training – in the end they might be people who have rough basic knowledge, but if it really came to a war situation where they had to be combat-ready, it would be a disaster.

T: Yes, that's also my opinion, I've seen it – if my company were called up in a war situation, you could call up four Navy Seals and that would be more effective than the hundred men we'd provide. It doesn't help! And our problem, which Germany also has, is outdated equipment. We have radio systems that don't work, weigh twelve kilograms and we carry them around with us, and they don't work anyway. With the budget we have, we can't train as many soldiers as we do, and I'd say the same for Germany.

I: I don't think conscription will really be reintroduced in that form. Every few years the proposal comes from more conservative circles, and given the war situation in Ukraine, it was clear it would come up again now. But it's definitely really interesting to get to know the perspective of people who actually still have to do it – in Germany it's really been suspended since 2011, and my generation barely knows what to make of it. But that's precisely why it's also interesting to get some insights.

T: Yes, I think from a personal perspective it's an okay thing, but from a political and economic perspective I think it's absolute nonsense, the way we do it.

I: In the final analysis, other people decide about it, not us, unfortunately.

T: Yes, or we as a very small part of the whole, as we like to do in Switzerland,
with our direct democracy (laughs)

I: True (laughs). Thank you very much for the interview and your perspective!

T: You're welcome!

Sophia Gessner

Note: The views presented reflect the opinion of the interviewees and not that of Sprachrohr.